Switzerland sucks

• If you think the salaries in switzerland are "higher," remember that anyway the cost of living in Switzerland is at least 2-3 times higher than the rest of Europe, so your savings rates are much lower. Plus the social life and number of contacts here are extremely low, you're lucky if you find even 2 swiss friends after living here for many years. Racism and xenophobia are huge problems here and growing by the day. Unless you are a cheese or watch maker or work in a bank, you will find the other industries to be extremely limited and not very rewarding.
  
  Conclusion: Stay away from switzerland, land of over-priced junk and unfriendly, cold, closed-minded people, and go to France or Germany instead.

  30 jun 2008, 05:39 Jack

Antwoorden

• Glock

  Why don't you repeat your post in any case? It seems nothing was read.

  Julia 26 jun 2009, 03:59 - Rapporteer misbruik

• To Julia

  It was a very long post..

  Glock 26 jun 2009, 05:27 - Rapporteer misbruik

• Glock

  Yes I read your posts

  LadyLiberty 26 jun 2009, 06:36 - Rapporteer misbruik

• Reality

  Too bad they deleted it though, goes to show when some people are given the naked truth they just can't bare it.. I would have loved to see the replies of some of these idiots defending switzerland..

  Glock 26 jun 2009, 08:07 - Rapporteer misbruik

• crazy?

  Adam the only nut in here is obviously you and the nuthouse you're talking about is your own. Looks like loneliness played some tricks on you my friend!

  Doctor 18 jul 2009, 10:13 - Rapporteer misbruik

• crazy?

  You actually point it out in your own writing. You can't argue with a nut. So I don't argue with you. Good night, patient.

  Doctor 18 jul 2009, 11:30 - Rapporteer misbruik

• God you're pathetic...

  The problem obviously seems to be that you simply don't have any arguments. Goodnight yourself, you wannabe.

  Adam 18 jul 2009, 11:40 - Rapporteer misbruik

• One last thing...

  And it looks like you might potentially know me, not because you're correct in your opinion, but because you are attacking me as a person and not the arguments, yet claim to be the person here who is more rational. What would your actual counterarguments be then? I have simply provided a plausible explanation for the oddness people from anglo-saxon countries seem to notice regarding the swiss mindset. You have no arguments other than a very unsubstantiated, weak personal insult. So, who's the actual idiot here? Goodnight, twat.

  Adam 18 jul 2009, 11:55 - Rapporteer misbruik

• what happens?

  why can't Adam or anybody else express his opinions? I don't see anything crazy in what he's saying, swiss are like that, though i personally believe the whole developed world is already functioning with those "values" the swiss are accused of having.

  Marina 19 jul 2009, 12:03 - Rapporteer misbruik

• Exactly

  I agree. It is not only a "swiss" problem, but a global one. I merely stated an opinion and used some actual arguments that support my opinion. The reason I have pointed out that the Swiss have a strong tendency towards such values is because I happen to encounter it every day in, yes, Switzerland. There are has been countless amount of research on the current development of the same attitudes becoming more and more dominant worldwide and Switzerland is simply a prime example. My home country, Ireland, is unfortunately heading in the same direction. I think it is merely a matter of time before mankind realises it's heading in the wrong direction and it needs to be pointed out in public for a change in direction to occur. Maybe we will witness that change ourselves, maybe it will take a lot longer than our own life-span. But I think future generations will look back at the time we're living in and come to conclusion that civilization was still in it's baby shoes at a time people thought they were actually socially advanced. The reason people like "the doctor" react the way they do is because conformity with the majority is a good survival tactic and differing opinions make them uncomfortable, hence the lack of reasonable counterarguments. Anyway, although it has been amusing, I've had enough of this discussion for now.

  Adam 19 jul 2009, 12:23 - Rapporteer misbruik

• crazy?

  Stop lying Adam! You're just upset because you're lonely. It happens to a lot of people abroad. Why else would you be writing essays on a forum nobody cares about? You just need to get out more often, Adam. Don't worry, it will pass and things will get back to normal again. It won't happen over night, but life isn't a movie now, is it, Adam? Just don't forget to take your daily lithium and visit your therapist. I heard they have some good treatment in Switzerland. Good luck!

  Doctor 19 jul 2009, 12:55 - Rapporteer misbruik

• crazy?

  Now, now, what is it with all these swear words ...? You really have to work on your manners, Adam. It doesn't surprise me now that you can't find anybody to talk to. Furthermore, I am only here to help people like you, eventually point you in the right direction. But obviously this gets more complicated with your increasing level of crazyness. You seem to show a rather violent and offensive behaviour in my opinion. Usually a straightforward case for the doctor.
  
  And since you accept the fact that people all over the world are becoming alike, where you would you go, Adam? I think your tinhead theories and friends are affecting you in bad ways and are becoming a nuisance to you and your environment. But there's still hope, I am sure Mulder, Scully and the Power-Rangers would agree, wouldn't they, Adam?

  Doctor 19 jul 2009, 11:28 - Rapporteer misbruik

• The self-proclaimed doctor seems poorly qualified...

  Ah, you're back with you're malinformed opionions once again. Point me in the right direction? And what direction would that be, then? Your's obviously, since you are the self-proclaimed omniscient person here, who, strangely, hasn't used a single reasonable argument yet and has not contributed to the actual topic at all. Tinhead theories? You really have no idea. And although you think you have some knowledge of psychology, you clearly don't (besides the fact that psychology is a means of social control, nothing else. Read "The Social Construction of Reality" by Berger and Luckmann). Violent behaviour? Violence is physical phenomenon, which is clearly impossible to demonstrate here. I wonder who's the actual crazy person here. As I said, you haven't contributed a single coherent argument towards the discussion itself, you are merely stating your opionion on someone who has stated his own, i.e. towards a person, not the topic. I think it may be safely assumed that it is you who is obviously quite disturbed since you are compensating your own inadequacies by picking on others. In conclusion, get lost.

  Adam 19 jul 2009, 12:29 - Rapporteer misbruik

• Back to the topic...

  I strongly advise anyone who has anything to say here to actually READ the statements by those who have contributed to this discussion so far from beginning to end. You will find that a lot of them, those who actually have something to say, seem to have similar views on the swiss mindset. And most of them seem to have actually lived in Switzerland and experienced it first hand, unlike others. Now, besides the common themes on how the Swiss have a strong tendency towards materialism, capitalism, are emotionally cold toward those around them, are xenophobic etc., it would be nice to hear some attepmts at EXPLAINING why they are percieved to be so. I am open to alternative views and alternative, reasonable explanations regarding those views. Everything else is pointless, especially if it boils down to people simply proclaiming that their opinion is "right" and that of the others is "wrong" and that if they do not agree then the others must simply be "crazy"...

  Adam 19 jul 2009, 12:49 - Rapporteer misbruik

• Doctor?

  First of all, what I have stated has nothing to do with "conspiracy theories". That's the conclusion others come to, when they do not have adequate information on the subject. You are the one who started with the verbal abuse, i.e. the insults. I only gave back. And this forum is about "opinions" on a particular topic. You did state an opinion: on me but not the topic. What you are doing here is quite baffling. And your "psychological insights" are based on everyday theories, your own opinion and not on facts and research. And social change and advancement has always originated from those who do not give in to the pressures of conformity, as you clearly do yourself, but from those who have the courage to question the status quo.

  Adam 19 jul 2009, 01:25 - Rapporteer misbruik

• "Xenophobe's Guide to the Swiss"

  Anyway, back to the actual subject, now that that annoyance has subsided... Regarding the swiss fixation on the importance of money, I'd like to point out that it was not too long ago, when tax-returns were due to be handed in, that there was actually public advertisements depicting a person actually hugging folders containing the relevant tax documents with advice on who to contact in order to save as much as possible in taxes. This simply points out the emotional attachment the Swiss have towards money and keeping documents of all sorts... Does anyone have a different explanation?
  
  Futhermore, I'd like to quote a few things from Paul Bilton's "Xenophobe's Guide to the Swiss" (London: Oval, 2005). There motto is "Forewarned is forearmed", by the way. Anyway, this is from the introduction...
  
  "(...) the Swiss are the the only nation to make the Germans appear inefficient, the French undiplomatic and Texans poor. (...) The Swiss rank amongst the top three highest per capita incomes in the world. But take consolation, they don't enjoy it one bit. The Swiss claim (...) that their success is only a temporary state of affairs and it will all shortly end in tears. So, like the poor donkey chasing the carrot, the Swiss pull their collective cart along ever faster, chasing the goal they passed years ago.
  Perhaps it is blissful ignorance that keeps the bumble bee airborne. For the Swiss it is anything but ignorance that keeps them flying so high - it is the fear that they will one day lose everything they have worked for." (Bilton 2005: 5)
  
  I'll stop here before someone tries to sue me... But within those words one finds affirmation of the (justified) stereotype: the Swiss love money, are unhappy and are full of fear.
  
  Paul Bilton's english but has been living in Switzerland for about 30 years now, as far as I know. And I think he is extremely insightful and his book is really worth a read. I recommend it to anyone who has trouble getting their head around the Swiss...
  
  Anyway, enough from me. Take care, all.

  Adam 19 jul 2009, 02:42 - Rapporteer misbruik

• crazy?

  Look, I know you're trying to sound smart and all but let's point at the real facts. Looking at official studies, that were probably carried out by "real" scientists, Switzerland does have one of the highest quality of life, 2-4 cities in the top ten most livable cities in the world, and generally some of the happiest people on this planet (earth, not planet-adam). Only because you probably don't speak language and/or can't integrate for whatever reasons, doesn't mean that there is an overall bad development or that the swiss way of life is bad. Your view of Switzerland and world is entirely subjective. The swiss seem to be very happy the way they are and some half-ass theory of a pseudo-shrink isn't going to change that. All of your accusation could very well be used against any (developed) country in this world. The only difference IMHO are geographical. There are many different people from all over the world living on a respectively small amount of land in Switzerland. It is completely normal that this creates some tensions among the natives and the newcomers (and mostly among the natives themselves), which eventually leads to generalizations, which then again could be interpreted as xenophobia. That is a false conclusion, though, as it only reflects the authors own xenophobia, therefore contradicting himself, as he seems unable to coexist within the majority. It also leads to false interpretion of the situation, as this cultural-barrier needs to be broken first. The way you describe it seems very unilateral. There are bad, good, selfish, open minded, retarded, foolish, backstabbing, fun, boring, fearful and heroic people everywhere. So I don't really see what's new about your theory other than it is packaged within some suitable words on a anonymous forum for retards (incl. you, me and all the rest who actually keep posting on this useless thread). So honestly, don't waste your time analyzing the Swiss as it is impossible to generalize a whole nation, without being accused of being a xenophobic, racist, simple minded and ignorant person yourself. I suggest you get out a bit and enjoy the view.

  Doctor 19 jul 2009, 02:56 - Rapporteer misbruik

• God, you're full of yourself...

  Who's accusing who? You're the one who started with the personal accusations, in case you didn't remember. And if anyone is justified to have an opinion on the Swiss mindset then it is a person who has actually lived amongst them for a longer period of time and not some yank who's never been there. And I will be publishing my thesis on the subject, with qualitative interviews from people of different opinions on the subject, and then use accepted scientific theories to explain the percieved phenomenae. And it will therefore not be anonymous, genius.
  And, strangley, fact is (and yes, this is now truly subjective, unlike the rest of what I said), whenever I'm back home in Ireland I feel comfortable amongst the people there and am continously happy. When I am amongst the swiss it is generally not the case, with a few exceptions. This is my opinion, based on my experiences and I'm justified in having it.
  You on the other hand are talking about things you have never experienced yourself. So, who's being pretentious then? Goodbye and good riddance.

  Adam 19 jul 2009, 03:31 - Rapporteer misbruik

• crazy!

  Wrong, Adam. You're not entitled of having more of an opinion on anyone. You're just generalizing and being abusive on the basis of hatred towards your own folks (which is very disturbing). I believe this could be a serious case of self-contempt. If you're really writing any paper, then I doubt that it will be regarded as a serious contribution to psychology or Switzerland. You know, there are many people like you around the world. Displaced, frustrated - alone.
  
  Oh and why do you always keep saying good-bye if you get back to the thread anyway? It looks like you suffer from several more mental disorders, I haven't thought of yet. I told you to consult that shrink, though!

  Doctor 19 jul 2009, 04:00 - Rapporteer misbruik

• The amazing doctor...

  I keep coming back because you obviously don't get the message. And it will be a contribution to sociology, not psychology. And I will be putting forth various opinions and explanations on the subject, not just my own. And recording different opinions on a subject via qualitative interviews is called phenomenology and is a valuable resource toward the formation of theory.
  Hatred towards my own folks? The swiss are not my own folks. The irish are. And if you're such an expert on psychology, you may recall that the strongest social imprinting occurs around the age of 3-4, primary socialization continues then til the age of 10 or 11 and then secondary socialization occurs. It's therefore the early years in your life that contribute towards your cultural identification the most, Einstein. And you really have no idea about psychology whatsoever, except that of a complete lay-person, obviously. But you think you do. So, who's the sad person here. You're trying to prove you're an expert on such matters yourself, when clearly you're not. As I said, this is a forum to discuss opinions on a certain topic, it is not meant for psyeudo-psychologists like yourself to attempt crappy analysis of the subjects posting here. What you accuse me of can easily be used to describe you, too. So, please, do yourself a favour and just keep it to yourself.

  Adam 19 jul 2009, 04:11 - Rapporteer misbruik

• On "opinions"...

  About the whole "having an opinion" thing and who's more entitled. Simple analogy: someone asks you about your opinion on what spaghetti tastes like. You have actually tried it and like it or dislike. Your opinion is justified 'cos you've actually tried it. It doesn't mean the other person has to agree. They can make their mind up for themselves once they've actually tried it. Now, another person hasn't tried it, yet claims it's wonderful. Is that opinion of any value and justified? Clearly not. There, I've stated it in a way that even you might be capable of comprehending.

  Adam 19 jul 2009, 04:21 - Rapporteer misbruik

• bogus

  I know Adam personally. He's so full of himself and keeps writing the same stuff over and over again on many different forums. It's all bogus! I was told he had an erection problem and is trying to compensate for it by bashing other people/countries. Simply don't take the guy too seriously. If you read this Adam, stop it! It's enough and very embarrassing, in particular for the people who know you. Switzerland is a nice country. bb

  eagleeye 21 jul 2009, 11:37 - Rapporteer misbruik

• Adam sucks

  yeah

  me 21 jul 2009, 01:18 - Rapporteer misbruik

• Ah, our friend the doctor and his opinions., once again...

  "Eagleeye" claims to know me personally? besides the fact that the last three entries are from the "doctor" ( the way you write is very repetitive) this is the first and last forum I have stated my opinion on. Now, if criticizing swiss culture is embarassing, then what the hell are people who have such a big problem with that doing on a thread that is entitled "switzerland sucks" and contains many entries by other people with the same opinion (who, strangely, have not been criticized)? the thread was started a year ago, by the way. And if "eagleeye" happens not to be the "doctor" and does happen to know me(although I strongly doubt it) would he or she care to disclose their identity and take this issue up face to face with me? I doubt it. "Doctor", give it up and get lost. This is getting ever so boring, your medicalness.

  Adam 21 jul 2009, 05:29 - Rapporteer misbruik

• A comparison...

  Since I am here to discuss the topic and not to waste my time throwing around personal insults for no proper reason I shall do so and get back to the discussion. And here is a small comparison to illustrate why I think my position is not just "bullshit".
  
  I was in Ireland a few years ago, out in Dublin with friends on a saturday night, when all of a sudden we came across a drunk muslim who was going on at full volume about how much he hates Irealand, how it is an ungodly country and how the people there were all assholes... Now, as you can imagine, I did not agree with him. BUT (and this is the whole point) I understood him. And that is what this forum should be about, in my opinion. Not about who is right or who is wrong but about trying to understand oneanother.
  Unfortunately, people like the "doctor" and his "friends" just don't seem to get that. They have their opinion and think that anybody who's opinioin differs is simply wrong. Talk about being a hypocrite.
  And yes, Switzerland is a nice counntry (geographically) and has many upsides. It has a very good infrastructure, offers financial security etc. But that doesn't change the fact that many (not all) people from with an anglo-saxon cultural background seem to have issues with the swiss and stay away from them. Those with an anglo-saxon background who point out how wonderful everything is here funny enough tend to stay amongst those of their own kind and seldom interact with the Swiss. But they tend not to mention that when talking about the subject...
  And as I said, I'm talking about a general tendency towards certain values recognizable in the swiss mindset. This does not mean that it applies to each and every individual swiss person. I have merely been pointing out what seems strange to people from an anglo-saxon background and not what is better or worse. It is by pointing out the cultural differences and trying to explain them that, in the end, understanding can be reached. Understanding is more important than agreement, which is something some people hear just don't seem to want to get...

  Adam 21 jul 2009, 06:07 - Rapporteer misbruik

• imho

  adam is unemployed. he has too much time to surf the web.

  gimme more white pudding 21 jul 2009, 06:41 - Rapporteer misbruik

• Good

  Good, the first time in ages someone has actually stated their opinion on the subject, rather than just reverted to personal insults.

  Adam 21 jul 2009, 06:57 - Rapporteer misbruik

• hey you

  to be gay is not a crime

  Julia 22 jul 2009, 02:39 - Rapporteer misbruik

• Adam Adam

  I'm gay too. We're many; don't worry.

  little jimmy 22 jul 2009, 11:22 - Rapporteer misbruik

• adam and little jimmy

  where can we meet? how about a little nasty "ménage à trois"?

  la fleur de ta vie 23 jul 2009, 07:01 - Rapporteer misbruik

• uuuummm

  let's do the nasty little thing between three aaahh

  little jimmy 23 jul 2009, 07:57 - Rapporteer misbruik

• What the...?!

  You all sound like 10 year old kids having an argument about whose dad's the best! I never knew people could be so into their own country.
  You're all stereotyping big time and that's a mild form of racism. Not liking the Swiss, isn't that racism? Unfortunately racists are everywhere, and being Swiss doesn't give you a ticket to be one. Ok, some countries have clearer views and policies on immigration and social help than others, but it doesn't mean that the whole population agrees. I'm French and although it's fairly easy for immigrants to enter the country, I assure you that many nationals are pissed off about it. I now live in the UK, and it's the same here. Don't kid yourselves, you have raised the wrong argument to decide which country is best.
  Now, I don't know which country is best and frankly I don't give a shit. I'm only glad I'm never gonna have to sit at a diner party with you lot. Boooooriiing!
  
  So long

  chriistophe 23 jul 2009, 11:15 - Rapporteer misbruik

• @chriistophe

  thank you for proving that adams an idiot. We already knew it. Vive la france, la suisse et l'angleterre.

  Support Genève 23 jul 2009, 02:18 - Rapporteer misbruik

• Very well

  Jesus Christ. This has never been a discussion about "which country is best". It has been a "discussion" about the clash of cultures and what factors explain it. And if you think this is all about unjustified stereo-typing, then you are implicitely assuming that there is no such thing as different cultures, different mindsets, different senses of humour, different work ethics, different social structures etc. No, it's all just racism and stereo-typing...
  
  The great thing I find about people who accuse others of being racist is that they contradict themselves. They assume that others are being intolerant, which in their opinion they are not aloud to be. So, in effect they are themselves being intolerant of others assumed intolerance...
  
  Now, as I stated earlier, yes, I do not like the swiss and swiss culture. And I'm entitled to that opinion. I never said anyone else had to agree. BUT I decided to figure out what the differences between anglo-saxon and germanic culture boil down to, i.e. what the causes of the different mindsets are.
  
  The answer seems to lie in socio-historical developments which involve calvinistic protestantism, bureaucracy, authoritarianism vs. anti-authoritarianism and strong uncertainty avoidance vs. weak uncertainty avoidance. These are the reasons the germans/swiss are often regarded as being cold, boring, lacking a true sense of humour etc. by people from anglo-saxon countries, and why the english/irish are regarded as being loud, crude and full of themselves etc.
  
  Now, if you have trouble understanding these arguments then I suggest you read up on it. You can start with Max Weber ("Wirtschaft und Gesellschaft" and "Die protestantische Ethik und der Geist des Kapitalismus"; both books that are regarded as sociological classics).
  
  For some explanations of the differences between anglo-saxon and german cultures that are hard to bridge and may cause tension (especially on "why humour doesn't travel" read:
  
  "http://books.google.ch/books?id=SlRlGVYRBWcC&pg=PA186&lpg=PA186&dq=german+lacks+humour&source=bl&ots=xPLiDzei_F&sig=kAvY080g6senB1KZAO-N08zO7gs&hl=de&ei=YmVVSpK4PMzG_gaMiLXdAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5" (pages 185-187).
  
  As I said, this has nothing to do with "which country is best" or any other crap like that. Nonetheless, I did find "christophe's" arguments to be the most sensible arguments I've heard so far, even though I don't quite agree (which is the whole bloody point of a discussion).
  
  Now, since people like "Support Genève" on the other hand refuse to use actual arguments and simply revert to personal insults, I have no idea what they're doing here. And since they seem to be in the majority on this site, I will gladly leave this "discussion", since it is leading nowhere. I've said my peace. What you lot make of it is up to you.
  
  Goodbye.

  Adam 23 jul 2009, 06:21 - Rapporteer misbruik

• uuuu

  how scaring "they are miserable". For god's sake! there are miserable people in every planet.

  Marina 01 aug 2009, 10:59 - Rapporteer misbruik